Curse

germanturkey · Mar 18, 2007, 10:59 PM // 22:59

dunno if this is in the right place... smite me if it isn't

but yeah, how many of you guys have played with great PUGs now and days? i know in the beginning (like 05) PUGs were easy and great to come by. everything worked together and things were fun. However, after taking a 6 month break and coming back middle of 06, i found PUGs had lost their luster and playability. people prefered guildmates and cookie cutter builds to originality.

i thought this was the case until only a few weeks ago.. i got a great PUG in tombs (one that wasn't purely MM and B/P, in fact, no ranger at all) and we finished in about an hour and some minutes. and then today, i did the last two story missions for prophecies with great balanced PUGs that worked together really well..

so i know some people talk about the death of the PUG, but what do the rest of you think?

Puebert · Mar 18, 2007, 11:07 PM // 23:07

I think PuGs are dying in the older chapters. (Factions mainly.) PuGs will always be popular in the newer chapter. I use PuGs my 1st time through each chapter, but on the second character to pass through it, I usually use henchies.

T N Player · Mar 18, 2007, 11:09 PM // 23:09

i think the pugs can make missions easier but sometimes they just mess up. so ppl dont know wat they are doing and when to retreat during a wipe like u can with heros and hench. so ppl also dont come prepared like with a rez

drakun01 · Mar 18, 2007, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Well, as a monk I see many good and bad PUGs. I think one of the best I have ever found was in Gate of Madness. We breezed through that mission without a single death.
Another great one was in Sunjiang District when I was taking my friends 'sin through it. We had a beastmaster tank for us, a ele on healing, a crit barrager, two sins who specialized in hexes and daggers respectively, a restorit, a R/D who used a scythe, a minion bomber, and a Paragon who nuked. It went surprisingly well actually.

Gustin · Mar 18, 2007, 11:10 PM // 23:10

I always do PUGs on missions. It's easier because I don't have to do as much (as far as keep up with what heros are doing what and wtf the henchies are up to) and can just sit back and shoot stuff.

Orbknight · Mar 18, 2007, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Mmm, first time posting, hope i don't mess this up.

I find that PUG quality is mostly down to the class you use and the situation. For example, most of my GW playing time is down in Tombs, although instead of using the standard Barrager Ranger, i use a Critical Barrager A/R. This does take longer to get into groups, and there's the odd moment when someone goes "Lols, you are teh Noobist, Assa's are *Insert swear here* here." but when i DO get in groups, they are nice, friendly, and are occaisionally interested by the build.

I've even started to see people i've PUGed with before, and somehow i always end up with atleast 1 person i've played with before, and the more i play, the easier it is to get groups.

Orphan Anthem · Mar 18, 2007, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Generally easy to complete missions/quests pugs are good at but with more diffaculty comes more restrictive choices.

Captain Arne Is PRO · Mar 18, 2007, 11:16 PM // 23:16

I just played with a great pug.. Even with a language barrier, we managed to run through Boreas Seabed all the way to HzH in less than an hour.

Machinae · Mar 18, 2007, 11:17 PM // 23:17

I actually had a great time today in a 9man Deep PuG. I love it when people just know what they need to do and how to do it. Because I usually monk, I often see alot of people who either don't pay attention to energy calls, or the famous Leeroy style wammos charging in ahead and then asking "y no heal?!" [no joke :/]. But groups like mine earlier make it all worthwhile.

Bryant Again · Mar 18, 2007, 11:22 PM // 23:22

I decided to PUG Nundu Bay with my friend. We had no healers, only a paragon with hex removal, a Me/Mo who said he'd go healing, and Zhed as another E/Mo who would go healing. We had no other elementalists, a dervish, 3 warriors, and an assassin. Possibly the worst set up ever.

We got Masters with only one death.

My world turned up-side down.

**cosyfiep** · Mar 18, 2007, 11:26 PM // 23:26

the pug is alive and well..... a few weekends ago I took my newest rit from viznuah all the way to cavalon with a bunch of great pugs....minus napuli I got masters on all of the missions.....when I finally made it to gayla (didnt have the faction anylonger) I got another great group for that mission as well..
In chapter 3 I have had 50-50 luck with the missions w/pug.....sometimes the group needs to feel each other out first (this happened with dzag. bastion...we died and then regrouped for a second attempt)....and then is able to act in a more cohesive fashion. I have had some great luck with these groups....usually we get masters on the missions, sometimes not; but I have more fun with pugs and all the little things that happen along the way with them than running by myself (however----my rit did unwaking waters all hench/hero in 8:24 which I have yet to beat with a pug).
I dont know about chapter one as I have had no need to either do or redo any missions there recently---------

explodemyheart · Mar 18, 2007, 11:28 PM // 23:28

I'm typically very anti-PUG but last night once America got favor, my boyfriend and I decided to try to find a group for FoW and ended up getting in a 6 man group. One of the eles sucked and left the group once we got to the Forgemaster, but from there on it was smooth sailing. We were about 75% through with clearing FoW when we all decided that sleep should be had, since it was 5 in the morning. We had about 23 shard drops, a few golds, and had managed to do better and go farther than most full groups I've been in.

It was honestly the only PUG group I've ever had worth remembering.

Samuel Dravis · Mar 18, 2007, 11:31 PM // 23:31

I've had a lot of good pugs in Prophecies (mainly at the Fire Island Chain), a few in Cantha, but I think...one in Nightfall. Once I did Sunjiang super quick with a great team. I think it's a lot easier to find a good team if you're the monk (provided you are decent at your job).

The very best place to find a pug in prophecies is the Fissure, however. The 8 man teams are almost always crap, but the 5 mans ocasionally work well.

Bryant Again · Mar 18, 2007, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by explodemyheart

I'm typically very anti-PUG but last night once America got favor, my boyfriend and I decided to try to find a group for FoW and ended up getting in a 6 man group. One of the eles sucked and left the group once we got to the Forgemaster, but from there on it was smooth sailing. We were about 75% through with clearing FoW when we all decided that sleep should be had, since it was 5 in the morning. We had about 23 shard drops, a few golds, and had managed to do better and go farther than most full groups I've been in.

It was honestly the only PUG group I've ever had worth remembering.

Oddly enough, some of my favorite PUGs have actually been in the Fissure...Dunno why, but I can't complain. Great times were had.

Kook~NBK~ · Mar 18, 2007, 11:43 PM // 23:43

I've always had more good luck when it comes to PUGs han bad. Many of the "PUGs Suck" comments made on these boards leave me scratching my head wondering what these people are talking about.

Some of the best PUGs I've been is were while doing Dzagonur Bastion mission. The worst place I've found for playing PUGs is the Grand Court mission. :s

shanaya · Mar 18, 2007, 11:46 PM // 23:46

A good PUG where everyone communicates and works as a team is a joy.

I was recently in a German PUG at Hell's Precipice. Six Germans and two non-German (one of whom was me). The six Germans kindly switched to English to help the other two. We stopped frequently and discussed tactics. The leader called targets and everyone basically followed orders and didn't over-aggro. What a pleasure it was! I really enjoyed it and we got mission + bonus easily.

I have to admit though, it was the exception rather than the rule.

Skyy High · Mar 19, 2007, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by germanturkey

i know in the beginning (like 05) PUGs were easy and great to come by. everything worked together and things were fun. However, after taking a 6 month break and coming back middle of 06, i found PUGs had lost their luster and playability. people prefered what works to what doesn't.

Fixed.
It's quite simple really. In the beginning, everyone was a noob relatively speaking. The skill combos hadn't been explored thoroughly, tactics hadn't been laid in stone, team builds were still being discovered, etc. Fast forward a year to summer 06, and people who had been playing since the beginning had a pretty good idea of what skills were efficient, what weren't, and what a team needed to have to easily roll over most PvE.

Fast forward another year or so to the present day, where we now have hench controls, malleable heros, in essence full party customization, and "originality" is a liability. There are certain builds that work better than other builds, period. It's not a matter of just using "cookie cutter builds", it's about a player knowing what skills are best for the job, and not being so stubborn about being unique that he would forego the best build in the name of his own uniqueness.

Nowadays, since we can bring a hero with the EXACT skill setup that we want (which for veterans would be the best general skill setup), tolerating "originality" is dead. That's great, you go run your signet monk build with Keystone Signet...somewhere else. I'll bring Dunkoro. Firestorm, Flare, Searing Heat, Burning Speed, and Inferno? Thanks, but I'll grab my Zhed.

"Cookie cutter" builds have been tried, tested, proven. They work, and they are generally easy to fit into a normal party setup; ie, they don't require massive and unusual support from teammates. This is why they're used in PUGs, and if you don't, you will be replaced by a hero who will use them, at least in the teams that want to roll PvE and not have any surprises. I, and most other people who have been here for 2 years, no longer find it fun to try and fail and missions because of "original" builds. Power to the new players who find that fun; I will not be joining those groups except when I'm bored. Heros will replace people with unique builds, but at the same time they are your best friend; you can set them up exactly how you want, and run through PvE with your 3-element 4-attribute elementalist as much as you want.

Well that was quite long. Summary: people know what works now. Using substandard builds in groups with people who know better will just annoy them, and lead to either you or them leaving if they are interested in finishing quickly...which most experienced PvEers are nowadays. Also, "cookie cutter" is not a put-down, and it shouldn't be used as one.

Alias_X · Mar 19, 2007, 12:11 AM // 00:11

It's a box of chocolates. It gets on my nerves when a group forms to do Masters, we get into the game, and nobody else has checked GuildWiki so they don't know what to do. All they care about is the master reward, they haven't prepared to do the mission at a higher level at all.

lacasner · Mar 19, 2007, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

"Cookie cutter" builds have been tried, tested, proven. They work, and they are generally easy to fit into a normal party setup; ie, they don't require massive and unusual support from teammates. This is why they're used in PUGs, and if you don't, you will be replaced by a hero who will use them, at least in the teams that want to roll PvE and not have any surprises. I, and most other people who have been here for 2 years, no longer find it fun to try and fail and missions because of "original" builds. Power to the new players who find that fun; I will not be joining those groups except when I'm bored. Heros will replace people with unique builds, but at the same time they are your best friend; you can set them up exactly how you want, and run through PvE with your 3-element 4-attribute elementalist as much as you want.

If skills could be properly balanced, which is very hard to do and is very subjective, maybe a lot of the cookie cutter build problems could be solved.

kazjun · Mar 19, 2007, 12:38 AM // 00:38

But the fact is they're not balanced. Sure its funny to see a hamstorm warrior, and you might think its the best build in the world. But most of the time I want to kill whatever I'm fighting and be on my way. If you want to run original builds, then it at least has to equal or better the "cookie cutter" builds. And most of the time it doesn't. Most experienced players, if you actually show them the skillset and explain how it works are quite happy to take you. But if you're just running some gimped bar and expecting them to carry you just cause you don't want to change your skills, well...

When I need to finish a mission or something, I'll go with guildies or heroes. But I do still pug sometimes, and its usually for the fun of it.If you got some way out original setup, that's fine. I'm just here for fun. But not all other players will feel the same.